Time
S
Nick
Message
08:31 Benjamin_Peuch joined #dataverse
11:45 poikilotherm joined #dataverse
12:17 pdurbin joined #dataverse
12:17 pdurbin
Happy New Year!
12:20 poikilotherm
Happy New Year :-)
12:26 pdurbin
I already emailed Benjamin_Peuch the good news that I'll be speaking at FOSDEM: https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/speaker/philip_durbin/
12:26 pdurbin
poikilotherm: have you decided if you're coming? :)
12:26 poikilotherm
Nope, not yet
12:26 poikilotherm
But good to know when you will have your talk
12:27 poikilotherm
Most likely I will come on Sunday then ;-)
12:28 pdurbin
Great!
12:30 pdurbin
Now I just need to write the talk. :)
12:31 poikilotherm
It's a lightning talk, so it should be just a few cards or 1-2 slides, wouldn't it?
12:31 poikilotherm
s/wouldn't/shouldn't/
12:31 pdurbin
Yeah, only 15 minutes.
12:33 pdurbin
I put "science" in the title to try to draw people in. :)
12:34 poikilotherm
Oh 15 Minutes?
12:34 poikilotherm
Nice
12:35 poikilotherm
Most lightning talks I know only offer 2, 5 or 10 minutes
12:35 pdurbin
Yeah, I gave a 5 minute one at LibrePlanet (also on Dataverse): http://wiki.greptilian.com/talks/2017/libreplanet-dataverse-lightning-talk/
12:36 pdurbin
In that case, I didn't have any slides at all. I just brought up the Dataverse home page. Unplanned.
13:33 Benjamin_Peuch
Hello everybody. Happy New Year!
13:33 Benjamin_Peuch
Yes indeed pdurbin, I got your email. Thanks a lot. This is great news :)
13:34 Benjamin_Peuch
They messaged you after Christmas so they can't even say they were keeping the info as a gift
13:54 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: the weird thing is that they've changed the URL for my talk. So the one is my email is now a 404. Here's the new URL: https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/dataverse/ . And you saw that I was wrong about my flight? I won't be landing until lunchtime.
13:57 Benjamin_Peuch
Haven't they heard about persistent identifiers? :D
13:58 pdurbin
apparently not! :)
13:58 Benjamin_Peuch
Indeed, regarding your flight, this could mean that you would not be available as soon as we were hoping.
13:59 Benjamin_Peuch
Assuming you'd be ready for a meeting soon after that very long trip.
14:01 pdurbin
Well, the flight itself is less than 4 hours. Faster than flying to California. :)
14:03 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: have you heard of Kokob or Baogo? I was thinking about signing up for this dinner: https://doodle.com/poll/vdvvd5xdzd2ytu2n
14:07 Benjamin_Peuch
Kokob is delicious! Fine Ethiopian cuisine
14:08 Benjamin_Peuch
It's best to go there with somebody else so that you get to enjoy their injera menu
14:08 pdurbin
mmm, injera
14:09 Benjamin_Peuch
Ever tried it?
14:09 Benjamin_Peuch
I've never heard about the Baogo
14:10 Benjamin_Peuch
Asian burgers. That must be interesting
14:10 pdurbin
Yeah, my daughter's friend was adopted and is from Ethiopia. Her parents have cooked for us (and travelled there several times). Plus there's a nice restaurant in Boston.
14:11 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: this is the other event I had on my radar from Jan 31 before you reached out to me: https://chaoss.community/chaosscon-2020-eu/
14:12 pdurbin
But I'm still happen to come visit if that works. Too bad it would be kind of late on a Friday afternoon.
14:13 pdurbin
happy*
14:13 pdurbin
happy to come visit
14:23 Benjamin_Peuch
Hu. I thought this was the Chaos Computer Club for a moment
14:24 Benjamin_Peuch
Oh I see. Much of the crowd attending this event will also be present at the FOSDEM, likely
14:25 Benjamin_Peuch
If you're still up for a meeting on Friday, we would really love to have you pdurbin
14:25 Benjamin_Peuch
We should see what time is most convenient for you since you'll arrive later than planned and we don't want to rush you
14:31 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: well, should we pick a time? Maybe I'd just come over directly from the airport?
14:32 pdurbin
I'll try to keep my timezones straight this time. :)
14:34 Benjamin_Peuch
If that's fine by you then great!
14:35 pdurbin
How do you recommend getting from the airport to the state archives?
14:39 Benjamin_Peuch
By train is definitely a good plan: it can take you to Central Station (Gare centrale / Centraal Station), which is located right next to the State Archives' headquarters.
14:40 Benjamin_Peuch
And sure enough there's a train station beneath the airport.
14:44 * pdurbin
likes trains
14:46 Benjamin_Peuch
Hopefully then this doesn't happen to you :D
14:46 Benjamin_Peuch
https://youtu.be/vyItidbjxLM
14:49 pdurbin
lol
14:51 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: any thoughts on any sort of "fringe" event? Would it make any sense to use the state archives as a venue?
14:54 Benjamin_Peuch
Yes, I also wanted to come back to this point.
14:56 Benjamin_Peuch
I believe you don't need to register to attend the FOSDEM? Indeed that would be a bit counter-intuitive with the general philosophy of the event
14:57 Benjamin_Peuch
I don't know if we can expect many people to attend our fringe meeting if we ask for registrations? So, you know, we know for how many people we need to prepare some coffee
15:00 pdurbin
This will be my first time to FOSDEM but you're right, from what I understand. It's completely free to attend. You just show up. So yes, it would be nice for a fringe event to be similar.
15:00 Benjamin_Peuch
Ideally. But I'm not certain this could work here.
15:01 Benjamin_Peuch
We are an old, cultural heritage institution, you see. :x
15:01 Benjamin_Peuch
I just heard from my boss about this. She's not against the idea of a fringe meeting.
15:02 donsizemore joined #dataverse
15:02 pdurbin
Great!
15:02 Benjamin_Peuch
Oh I see that some fringe events are not free of charge anyway: https://fosdem.org/2020/fringe/
15:02 Benjamin_Peuch
Anything goes pretty much.
15:03 Benjamin_Peuch
We will have to cap the number of possible attendees, but I'm not expecting a huge crowd.
15:03 pdurbin
Wow, from free to $1499.
15:03 Benjamin_Peuch
(Then again, I'd love to be proved wrong.)
15:03 Benjamin_Peuch
Eeyup.
15:03 pdurbin
I didn't expect so many people for our group photo: https://twitter.com/philipdurbin/status/1206700431037980673 :)
15:04 pdurbin
But I piggy-backed off our holiday party. :)
15:05 Benjamin_Peuch
Haha, you're right in the middle!
15:05 Benjamin_Peuch
What a lovely-looking dog, too. :)
15:05 Benjamin_Peuch
Congratulations on your prize!
15:05 pdurbin
That's Davis. He's also in a YouTube video from donsizemore
15:05 Benjamin_Peuch
He's a chonky boy!
15:06 pdurbin
Here's Davis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_1IdJ-nYY0
15:06 pdurbin
Only a few of us are allowed to give him treats.
15:08 Benjamin_Peuch
Sound policy. I can imagine the problems otherwise.
15:09 Benjamin_Peuch
I'll come back to you with the details for the fringe event asap.
15:09 Benjamin_Peuch
If I may change the subject, my colleague Youssef noticed that the "Terms" section of Dataverse seems to work quite differently from "Metadata".
15:09 Benjamin_Peuch
Why is that?
15:10 pdurbin
Different how?
15:10 pdurbin
(not that I disagree)
15:10 Benjamin_Peuch
It can't be modified via a tsv file like the "Metadata" section.
15:12 pdurbin
You can't customize it, you're saying. Do you want different licenses? CC-BY or whatever? Or something else?
15:14 pdurbin
What is your use case?
15:15 Benjamin_Peuch
Indeed the possibility of offering different licenses would be great.
15:15 Benjamin_Peuch
Making CC-BY the default choice for instance would be ideal, and not just for us I think, since this is a widely used license in the academic world.
15:16 Benjamin_Peuch
(Whereas CC0 is pretty extreme and, I would assume, not fit for most researchers and research centers.)
15:16 Benjamin_Peuch
One of our project partner, a demographer, also told us that he found the "Terms" section a little intimidating.
15:17 Benjamin_Peuch
Because it's very long and it has so many fields, some of which are not always easy to distinguish.
15:17 Benjamin_Peuch
I was planning to voice his concern as an issue on GitHub.
15:17 pdurbin
Not just for you is right. There is a lot of interest in making Terms more flexible. I could point you to exisiting GitHub issues but it would probably be better for you to open a new issue with details about your use cases.
15:18 pdurbin
Multiple new issues.
15:18 Benjamin_Peuch
Really? We wouldn't want to spam the Dataverse GitHub.
15:20 pdurbin
GitHub issues are how we gather feedback. And feedback is a gift.
15:21 pdurbin
"Terms are long and intimidating" sounds fine to me. With a screenshot to remind eveyone how many fields there are.
15:24 Benjamin_Peuch
I'll do just that then. Thanks :)
15:26 pdurbin
thanks!
15:27 pdurbin
We try to keep the "create dataset" page somewhat short. Because otherwise it's too much to read, too many fields. But then authors can click "edit metadata" and add extra fields if they want to.
15:27 Benjamin_Peuch
We thought that was the logic behind the split in different metadata pages.
15:28 Benjamin_Peuch
On the one hand, it means extra clicks, to later go fill in all the other metadata fields.
15:29 Benjamin_Peuch
On the other hand, it's fewer risks of losing the information a user started punching in by inadvertently closing their browser for instance.
15:29 pdurbin
Yeah, it's controlled by "displayoncreate" at http://guides.dataverse.org/en/4.18.1/admin/metadatacustomization.html
15:38 Benjamin_Peuch
Thanks for the tip. :)
15:39 pdurbin
Sure, you could also make a field required, if it's important. There's a UI for this.
15:40 Benjamin_Peuch
Ah yes indeed, in the admin panel.
15:40 Benjamin_Peuch
Being able to manipulate the Terms fields in that same panel would be handy.
15:41 pdurbin
Absolutely. It sounds like you might hide some fields. So users aren't overwhelmed.
15:43 Benjamin_Peuch
Yes, that's what we had in mind.
15:43 Benjamin_Peuch
Another question if you don't mind.
15:43 pdurbin
I don't mind. I'm just catching up on my email.
15:43 Benjamin_Peuch
Haha good luck.
15:44 Benjamin_Peuch
When I'm viewing a dataset's metadata, if I click on the Contact button at the top of the page, this will send an email to the address that the data depositor specified.
15:44 Benjamin_Peuch
But if I click "Request Access" for files with restricted access, this will rather notify the Dataverse admin. Is that correct?
15:48 pdurbin
Yes, that's exactly right.
15:48 pdurbin
Is that weird? :)
15:49 Benjamin_Peuch
Not necessarily.
15:50 Benjamin_Peuch
But that means that the underlying philosophy is that one or more Dataverse administrators should handle the requests for access, and not (only) the dataset authors themselves?
15:51 Benjamin_Peuch
I know that in some data archives, for specific (especially sensitive) datasets, permission from the authors but also from the data archive's director must be obtained.
15:52 pdurbin
Hmm, in that case, I guess you could configure the dataset so that only the director can approve access. Also, please don't put sensitive data in Dataverse yet. We're working on this feature. :)
15:54 Benjamin_Peuch
No worries. This wasn't the idea. :D
15:55 Benjamin_Peuch
What we had in mind was rather outsourcing the handling of requests for access to the dataset authors entirely.
15:56 pdurbin
But you still want the director to approve also? Even if the author says it's ok? Sorry if I'm not following you. My head is in a bunch of emails.
16:00 Benjamin_Peuch
On the contrary, we would rather that only the person whose email address is referenced in the "Contact" section of the metadata be notified of requests for access.
16:00 Benjamin_Peuch
That they alone (or along with other contact persons mentioned, since the field can be duplicated) receive email when someone clicks "Request Access".
16:00 Benjamin_Peuch
Good luck with the emails. Thank you for your time. :)
16:02 pdurbin
Hmm, maybe you could write a script to make sure that the contact emails match the emails of the people who can approve requests.
16:03 pdurbin
Maybe this is obvious but the contact doesn't even have to have a Dataverse account. The person who can approve accounts does have to have an account.
16:06 Benjamin_Peuch
Indeed. But likewise, it's more important for depositors to have an account than for people who want access to data, right?
16:07 Benjamin_Peuch
Since requests for access can be sent without being logged in.
16:08 pdurbin
Well, if you click "Request Access" when you aren't logged in, you are prompted to create an account, right?
16:09 pdurbin
Yeah. "You need to Sign Up or Log In to request access to this file." In a popup.
16:09 pdurbin
So you have to log in.
16:12 Benjamin_Peuch
Hu, you're right. My bad.
16:13 pdurbin
No worries. The account is important so that access can be revoked in the future, if necessary.
16:14 Benjamin_Peuch
Indeed. It makes sense.
16:28 Benjamin_Peuch
I must be on my way.
16:28 Benjamin_Peuch
Thanks a lot for the help, as always!
16:29 Benjamin_Peuch91 joined #dataverse
16:29 Benjamin_Peuch91
I must be on my way. Thanks a lot for the help pdurbin, as always. :)
16:29 Benjamin_Peuch91
Until next time!
