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05:15 GitterIntegratio joined #dataverse
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11:50 Benjamin_Peuch joined #dataverse
11:50 Benjamin_Peuch
Hello everybody!
11:54 Benjamin_Peuch
I have a question about Permissions/Roles.
11:54 Benjamin_Peuch
I have the following use case in mind: A non-admin user just deposited a dataset, and it is for now an Unpublished Draft. This user wants their colleague to be able to add and edit the files and metadata for that dataset. So I believe they need the ManageDatasetPermissions attribute. But is there a way to allow users to do this by default for their own datasets, other than by manually, systematically assiging a role with this prerogative t
11:56 Benjamin_Peuch
I know that I could, as admin, have the Curator role automatically assigned to all users who add a new dataset. But I don't want that because I don't want users to be able to publish datasets by themselves. We want them to have to submit them for review.
12:11 donsizemore joined #dataverse
13:22 Benjamin_Peuch
Any idea? pdurbin? o:)
13:30 donsizemore
@Benjamin_Peuch I pestered IQSS' archivist in Slack
13:31 Benjamin_Peuch
You forwarded my question to them, donsizemore?
13:31 donsizemore
correct.
13:31 Benjamin_Peuch
Thanks a lot :)
13:31 donsizemore
don't thank me until you get an answer =)
13:32 Benjamin_Peuch
Well you already did something for me!
13:32 Benjamin_Peuch
As for whether the seed will grow into a tree, only time could tell.
13:47 poikilotherm
Benjamin_Peuch: your colleague only needs to add the other colleage as a contributor to the dataset
13:47 poikilotherm
No need to do this as an admin
13:47 poikilotherm
Self service
13:48 poikilotherm
And if this happens more often: you can create a dataverse for them
13:48 Benjamin_Peuch
poikilotherm: But how can the user do this? I don't see the "Permissions" option when I click on "Edit" on a dataset's record as a non-admin user.
13:48 poikilotherm
IIRC permissions from the dataverse are inherited in datasets
13:49 poikilotherm
(you can inherit in sub dataverses, too, but this is a config setting=)
13:49 poikilotherm
Ah yeah you have to be the admin of the dataset
13:50 Benjamin_Peuch
I was hoping that a depositor would have this right by default for the datasets that they deposit.
13:50 poikilotherm
But changing the dataverse should be helpfull then, riught?
13:51 poikilotherm
You can do that
13:51 poikilotherm
https://i.imgur.com/W9C1zCZ.png
13:53 poikilotherm
Assigning the curator role by default should be what you are looking for, right?
13:53 donsizemore
@Benjamin_Peuch she says "Trying to answer all the little parts of this question but no, there is not. The role of contributor allows the user to deposit content without the ability to publish but it doesn't give them the ability to add additional permissions. Only the curator role does that and I would need to actually test if curators assigned to a dataverse can add users"
13:55 donsizemore
@Benjamin_Peuch she adds: "you do have the ability to create a role in your dataverse that may allow this."
13:55 Benjamin_Peuch
poikilotherm: Yes but like I said earlier, we don't want non-admin users to be able to publish their datasets by themselves, and making them curators by default would grant them that right unfortunately.
13:55 poikilotherm
Benjamin_Peuch: I'm sorry I misread your question :-D
13:56 Benjamin_Peuch
Noprobs. Thanks for your time. :)
13:56 poikilotherm
Benjamin_Peuch donsizemore are custom roles added to the list of options?
13:56 donsizemore
@poikilotherm how do you feel about danny's offer? mind if i throw together a list of responses in a google doc?
13:56 Benjamin_Peuch
donsizemore: Thanks a lot asking your coworker. It's good to have a definitive answer.
13:57 Benjamin_Peuch
I thought about creating a custom role, but then the Dataverse admin(s) would have to manually, systematically assign it to all new users.
13:57 poikilotherm
donsizemore: I have mixed feelings about it.
13:57 donsizemore
@Benjamin_Peuch I don't do much with Dataverse in the front-end. We turn people loose and hope the service doesn't fall over. I asked the lead archivist at IQSS, I can also ask our archivists here at Odum
13:57 poikilotherm
Benjamin_Peuch: the idea is to assign it via the auto-assign option of the Dataverse
13:58 Benjamin_Peuch
Thanks a lot, donsizemore! But at this point I don't think it's necessary, judging from what your colleague already told us. I think I had better open an issue on GitHub with my use case.
13:58 Benjamin_Peuch
poikilotherm: Auto-assign you say? :o
13:58 poikilotherm
Benjamin_Peuch: but I'm not sure that custom roles are added to the list (which is by default "curator" and "contributor")
13:58 Benjamin_Peuch
Oh, right.
13:59 Benjamin_Peuch
I thought you were talking about another feature.
13:59 poikilotherm
I could take a look at the code if you want
14:00 Benjamin_Peuch
That's very kind, thanks. :) But I think trying to force custom roles in there might be too risky, too much like forking.
14:00 Benjamin_Peuch
We try not to deviate too much from the original Dataverse (we stick to minor changes like renaming one or two metadata fields, adding a box of metadata...).
14:02 poikilotherm
Well from the code it looks like there is support for this!!!!
14:03 poikilotherm
You can deploy a custom role and enable it somehow to appear in that list
14:04 poikilotherm
IIRC you need to use the API to create the role: http://guides.dataverse.org/en/latest/api/native-api.html#create-a-new-role-in-a-dataverse
14:05 poikilotherm
This is no forking, just a database entry
14:05 Benjamin_Peuch
:o
14:05 Benjamin_Peuch
By Jove
14:06 Benjamin_Peuch
Thank you so much poikilotherm!
14:06 poikilotherm
And you should be able to assign the role via API , too. (Not sure how to make it appear in the UI to be able to choose it) http://guides.dataverse.org/en/latest/api/native-api.html#id29
14:07 Benjamin_Peuch
Well I know Kung Fu now -- I mean curl
14:07 Benjamin_Peuch
So I'll try this
14:08 poikilotherm
:-D
14:08 pdurbin
curl fu
14:09 poikilotherm
A bell rings in the back of my head that there is an issue about adding the role management to the UI. Maybe pdurbin has a shovel to dig for it
14:09 poikilotherm
I couldn't find it :-D
14:10 pdurbin
poikilotherm: there's an "An New Role" button.
14:10 pdurbin
whoops, "Add New Role"
14:11 Benjamin_Peuch
But does it show up in the list of roles by default, pdurbin?
14:12 pdurbin
I can't remember if custom roles are global or not.
14:13 pdurbin
Let me catch up on the conversation so far. My first thought was that you could assign a role to your collaborator at the parent dataverse level.
14:13 pdurbin
But this would give you collaborator access to all your datasets, which you may not want.
14:13 Benjamin_Peuch
Indeed
14:17 poikilotherm
From what I see in the code, you will need to attach the custom role as the default contributor role via API
14:17 poikilotherm
http://guides.dataverse.org/en/latest/api/native-api.html?highlight=default%20contributor#assign-default-role-to-user-creating-a-dataset-in-a-dataverse
14:17 poikilotherm
I haven't found a signs of a GUI element to assign this
14:18 poikilotherm
It will be a radio button once you have it in the dataverse
14:18 poikilotherm
But there is no dropdown or similar to choose a custom role. And there is no code to print all custom roles.
14:20 poikilotherm
(Looking at http://github.com/poikilotherm/dataverse/blob/c0d24b0ed3d5040de376ee223d552ffeab5edd62/src/main/webapp/permissions-manage.xhtml#L77-L79 here and following the traces from there...)
14:20 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: I'm still a little confused. Are you saying that a regular user can't manage permissions on a dataset he or she just created?
14:22 Benjamin_Peuch
So it seems to me, pdurbin. If I view the record (the webpage) of a dataset I deposited as a non-admin user and I click on Edit, there is no Permissions option.
14:23 pdurbin
Oh, I see. On https://demo.dataverse.org for example, when I create a dataset I have the Curator role. And you want to avoid that because you want to review datasets before they are published. Hmm.
14:27 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: the problem is that if you give a role that has ManageDatasetPermissions the person could give themselves a role with permission to publish.
14:28 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: I guess I would suggest starting a thread at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/dataverse-community
14:28 Benjamin_Peuch
pdurbin: It would give them the ability to assign roles?
14:29 pdurbin
Yeah, that's what ManageDatasetPermissions does.
14:29 Benjamin_Peuch
What I feared was that it might give them the ability to manage permissions for all datasets, including those they did not deposit themselves.
14:29 Benjamin_Peuch
Oh, I thought it was restricted to managing permissions/access rights for datasets. Not for users.
14:30 pdurbin
Maybe I've lost you already.
14:30 pdurbin
I don't think there's a solution right now. I'm not even sure if there's a GitHub issue yet.
14:30 pdurbin
But what you want makes total sense.
14:32 pdurbin
What's the workaround right now? Someone contacts you and you give the Contributor role to the person's collaborator?
14:43 poikilotherm
Maybe there should be an extension to the permission model: "InviteUsers" that allows to add others as contributors without being a curator
14:44 pdurbin
Yeah, something like that.
14:44 poikilotherm
That's not yet an automated default solution, but at least self service
14:45 pdurbin
Self service is key.
14:46 pdurbin
I don't know if this helps or is just too much to read through but someone warmed up an old related thread back in October 2019: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/dataverse-community/XjodQ6bQjFg/BKXuA-LqBQAJ
14:46 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: but I still think a new thread would be good. One that's focused on your use case, which I suspect is somewhat common.
14:50 pdurbin
poikilotherm: what's the offer you're talking about? :)
14:50 poikilotherm
pdurbin: offer?
14:51 pdurbin
you said you had mixed feelings about it
14:52 poikilotherm
Ah. That one.
14:52 poikilotherm
Yeah.
14:52 pdurbin
donsizemore: oh, I fixed my Python. Attempting to spin up a new ec2 instance for the first time in many weeks.
14:52 poikilotherm
I'm honored you folks asked
14:52 pdurbin
asked what?
14:53 Benjamin_Peuch
pdurbin: Thanks for your support. :)
14:53 poikilotherm
But currently my life is very busy with kids at home due to Corona shutdown, working remote and most important: construction work all over.
14:53 poikilotherm
I'm happy to give a talk about K8s and everything you want
14:53 poikilotherm
But helping in organization would need to happen in my work time
14:53 Benjamin_Peuch
pdurbin: Yes indeed, that's what we're going to write in our FAQ for now: if a user wants to allow another user to work on their dataset, they should contact the admins.
14:55 donsizemore
@poikilotherm I'm happy to do the normal housekeeping; I would want you (and Slava) in charge of the CI/Deployment presentation
14:55 Benjamin_Peuch
pdurbin: Thanks for the thread. I'll go through it.
14:56 pdurbin
Benjamin_Peuch: or start a new one. :)
14:56 Benjamin_Peuch
Yes indeed. But I want to make sure I don't just repeat what someone else has already said -- following the 'lurk more' principle. :p
14:57 poikilotherm
There is almost no free time :-/
14:57 poikilotherm
And I'm not sure my boss would be happy with this
14:57 poikilotherm
Most likely he has other priorities
14:57 poikilotherm
So I am afraid I won't be of much help
15:07 pdurbin
poikilotherm: lots of activity from you this morning! I'm still catching up on my email.
15:07 poikilotherm
pdurbin: yeah. Currently looking into a PR for #5274 to make donsizemore happy
15:09 pdurbin
poikilotherm: hmm. I want that eventually too. Not my highest priority. I assume you saw this tweet: https://twitter.com/Payara_Fish/status/1251128624289402881
15:10 poikilotherm
Sure :-D
15:10 poikilotherm
My mobile rang a bell when it happened :-D
15:11 Benjamin_Peuch
That's a decidedly cool fish
15:14 pdurbin
poikilotherm: heads up that this pull request (just merged) has a fix for running on Payara: https://github.com/IQSS/dataverse/pull/6828
16:04 poikilotherm
Here we go guys. https://github.com/IQSS/dataverse/pull/6837
16:06 poikilotherm
And let me tell you what: we really should get rid of the ingest in the main code. Tika introduces so many dependencies that bloat the WAR. It really should live on it's own module and WAR.
16:06 poikilotherm
That's it for me for today
16:07 poikilotherm
I hope I made everyone happy, except Slava (he wanted a 4.20 image from me)
16:07 * poikilotherm
waves at all
16:07 poikilotherm
(as usual I'll be around on my mobile)
16:30 donsizemore
@poikilotherm Akio's TRSA carves out ingest from the Dataverse webapp
16:55 Jim32 joined #dataverse
17:02 poikilotherm
Yeah. But does it remove it from the codebase?
17:04 donsizemore
it moves it into the TRSA webapp
17:06 poikilotherm
Sure. But does it remove the code and thus the bunch of dependencies on things like Tika, Apache POI etc?
17:09 Jim32
FWIW: Tika is used to do full text indexing during every index operation (if enabled), so it's not part of ingest at all. That's solely because of the current indexing design - since files never change once uploaded, they could be indexed once at ingest.
18:14 poikilotherm
Hi Jim32! Please don't get me wrong. I'm just talking about WAR file size here. Tika has a long list of dependencies and those are all included in the war, bloating it. It would be great to have fulltext indexing as a standalone component, deployed independently as a loosly coupled service.
18:15 poikilotherm
But this is all future.
18:16 poikilotherm
For now I'm on a hunt for another performance bottleneck during startup: deployment times of beans are piling up and memory consumption is going up up up. I have to use 1.5g of RAM now for develop...
18:33 pdurbin
poikilotherm: Slava's always happy. :)
18:35 pdurbin
I'd love to turn Jim32 into a believer in slimming down the Dataverse war file. I made a bar graph about the bloat a while back. :)
18:37 Jim32
@poikilotherm - gotcha. In this case, I'd like to improve operational performance too - repeating the full text indexing in the same bits is useless, but changing the overall indexing code was daunting.
19:19 jri joined #dataverse
20:28 nightowl313 joined #dataverse
20:29 nightowl313
does anyone know why glassfish would appear to not be running when checking the status, although the dv site is up and .asadmin start-domain issued normally?
20:30 pdurbin
nightowl313: sounds like it should be running
20:31 pdurbin
sometimes I do asadmin list-applications
20:33 nightowl313
if I issue service glassfish status (or systemctl status glassfish) it says it is disabled, however lists the .asadmin commands ... and those work fine
20:34 pdurbin
Huh. Has anything changed?
20:35 pdurbin
And did the status commands work previously?
20:35 nightowl313
no I think it has always been that way, I just recently tried to access the glassfish dashboard to see my smtp configuration and couldn't reach it, so tried the status
20:36 nightowl313
no it says "failed to start glassfish" (not disabled)
20:36 pdurbin
Gotcha. I never use the dashboard. Always command line for me.
20:37 nightowl313
Process: 1182 ExecStart=/usr/bin/java -jar /usr/local/glassfish4/glassfish/lib/client/appserver-cli.jar start-domain (code=exited, status=1/FAILURE)
20:37 nightowl313
but dv is up and running!
20:37 nightowl313
and list-applications shows dataverse
20:39 nightowl313
shows dataverse-4.19
20:39 nightowl313
maybe that's just normal
20:40 pdurbin
I think it might be normal. But maybe it would be possible to get "status" to show something better. That's what you want, right?
20:40 nightowl313
trying to configure smtp server ... mail is not working ... can I just configure the smtp server domain, port, etc from command line?
20:40 nightowl313
no that's okay if it's normal ... i usually check with .asadmin anyway, just making sure something isn't broken
20:41 nightowl313
thanks don sizemore for help already on postfix ... we have a smtp server so can I use that without postfix?
20:42 pdurbin
It's getting late in the day for donsizemore
20:42 pdurbin
I do think you can just use postfix.
20:42 nightowl313
he already helped me with the dataverse-ansible postfix task! was just thanking him!
20:43 pdurbin
Oh, you're saying you have another smtp server you'd rather use?
20:43 nightowl313
I don't think we need postfix, just smtp ... I think I found it in the docs that I can configure the mail server, etc... via command line ... I think
20:43 nightowl313
yes, we have an ASU smtp server that we can use
20:46 pdurbin
I do see some instructions one of our interns wrote up at http://guides.dataverse.org/en/4.19/installation/installation-main.html#mail-host-configuration-authentication
20:47 nightowl313
okay, yea, was just looking at that, too ... I think I need to follow the instructions to create a new notifyMailSession ... will try it ... thanks so much!
20:47 pdurbin
Sure. Good luck!
21:22 pdurbin
Ok, folks, I'm signing off. Have a lovely weekend!
21:23 pdurbin left #dataverse
22:33 nightowl313 left #dataverse
